The man most likely is considering launching a new ministry and needs to be stopped in his tracks. they also have worthy things to say which others benefit from. Weve drifted so far from the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth, Im not sure the institutional church can find its way back. Law Prof: He was evidently so invested in making the Dramatic Point and leaving a Big Impression that I dont think he considered anyone else at that moment. As usual, your comments and insight are on the money, Amy Moore. Do you mean it was given to those elders who assisted in helping JMac continue on with his antics? I share this for all who, like me, are overcome with new sadness, pain and loss amidst the HBC, Willow, Catholic church, ECFA, SBC, GFA, etc. The Bible is clear that all people are God's creation (Colossians 1:16), and that God loves the entire world (John 3:16), but only those who have faith (trust) in the work of Jesus are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10). If leaders and led live like this, the details of polity scarcely matter. Sorry to hear that he is now masquerading as Santa Claus Ill tell my grandchildren to be on the lookout. Who can say? That is one video that I wold love to post. The days of intermediaries are over, and we all have access to the very Spirit of God to lead us personally as he desires us to go. You should repent and make reparations where necessary. First question: when was this letter written and sent? I find it very comforting to know that Jesus entered into a world that was very similar to what we now face: Religion had become a caricature of what God desired, and Jesus gently called people to follow him, rather than fear men. I firmly believe we are experiencing another reformation. Im of course speaking about Paul. From all the people I know in those churches, I think thats exactly what happens! Its ok to admit more of you need to to completely clear the air. Movies Popular Now Playing Upcoming Top Rated TV Shows Popular Airing Today On TV Top Rated People . I wish that the decision to be a public figure in this scandal was left to the individual, not to third parties. Thank you for your insights. I hope you do for your own sake so you do not end up like the Pharisees that Jesus plainly stated were headed straight to an eternity in hell. Thats my personal experience after over a decade in the fold, and several years since interacting with many former Reformed folk; no offense intended. The statements were given to Greg Bradshaw, who shared with only a few Elders. Backfired twice over. Whatever we do as a church family, this is Gods work among us this is His church and His mission, to the glory of Jesus Christ. I agree, The only church Fred has ever worked for his Harvest. A continual cycle without end. 1/3 https://t.co/2PHkVGmEfJ, © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. FOR WITHOUT THEM ONE CANNOT SPEAK OF THE CHURCH. ++++++++++++++++++++. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. into playing a role in a conspiracy they do not even grasp. More Events. Look what that got them. Like they just made a technical foul in a game. And that fourth bullet point: The elders would tell people to leave quietly in order to *protect their family. I just wonder how much of my tithes went to support their gambling problem. Its true, though, this is kind of an agonized therapy for me, and I am sincere. Amen to that Max! That said, the bishops, priests, and deacons are supposed to be models of humility and servanthood. If a church tries to appoint elders who dont meet the qualifications for eldershipthe church dies. Jesus talked a LOT about living in the Kingdom we would do well to read His words living in the church doesnt always mean living in the Kingdom. No self-declared elders have authority over anyone who does not put their voluntary and continued trust in them. No more tithe. Instead, the cowriters hope that the show will encourage viewers to read the gospels with renewed passion. . really, what im saying is i think we can hold Paul and his comments loosely, just as we hold what others say loosely. Lord knows we need a fundamental change in the selection of leaders for the Body of Christ and an accountability system in place to keep the charlatans at bay. You were part of a workforce which brought a feeling of camaraderie and purpose and fellowship. I was there (our kids went there for 2 too long years) and it was unreal what went on during and after that incident. Morris no longer sits on Driscolls board. 37 were here. Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. of good behaviour I wish that the decision to be a public figure in this scandal was left to the individual, not to third parties. This man has no shame. So this notion of a pastor as single leader being completely made up well after the Bible was written, simply not biblical at all, purely cultural tradition, I think youd be safe to say that said book most certainly does not indicate that one assuming an unbiblical, made-up official office does not need to be heeded, but rather corrected, censured or even disciplined and thrown out of the church for their audacity and biblical ignorance. I was there (our kids went there for 2 too long years) and it was unreal what went on during and after that incident. Every weekend were gathering to open the Bible together, growing in Gods ways through community and going out to bring God glory through His Son, Jesus Christ. Just them asking me to become an elder told me something was wrong. If a cynic like me can be taken in, naive, trusting folks are easy prey. Finally, you deactivated your Twitter account a week ago. I think its one of the reasons that the mega movement has been so attractive to laity as well as leaders; they imagine that a bigger, more resource-rich group will be able to rescue more people from the terrible fate they would otherwise experience. We were hissing at them Close you eyes! and doing our best to throw ourselves in front of the smallest ones. You were *in charge* so to speak for years. Our inaugural ministry in the heart of Chicago began on September 20, 2009, with a mobile campus that met for worship on Sunday nights at a school in Wicker Park. This all happens when we gather, grow and go together as followers of Jesus. they are kind. The restoration of truth is the one thing that brings healing. Dallas Jenkins As many others have also said, I couldnt care less about what house or car James owns. Their strong Christian beliefs led Scott and Marsha Thompson to volunteer at Harvest Bible Chapel, and donate more than $72,000 over the course of several years. Max: Thats why the early church had congregational governance, rather than elder rule polity the Body of Christ had a say in who the church leaders were. I understand your point and the historical information. again and again and again. While I dont agree with all PJ says, I will say that I too have concerns whenever free speech is abridged, however well intended the reasons. We must realize that there are certain qualifications given concerning elders. Max: That clearly does not describe James MacDonald and HBC elders who are coming forth one at a time to confess their roles in the great deception in Chicago. Its sad to have lived to such a ripe old age to witness a generation that doesnt respect their elders as they ought. I read that as a statement, not a post open for discussion, and an appeal to stop the speculation and kibitzing over a tragic situation. "I believe (that is) my job in my personal life. none of that matters now. Ive seen the lightning flashing, Bayloy University Medical Center, 3500 Gaston Ave., Dallas, TX 75246 [email protected] Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Diocese of Chicago and Detroit Bishop Peter Loukianoff 4/26/2019 Community Bible Church Ed Newton and Sean Metcalf 2477 N. 1604 East San Antonio TX 78232 5/1/2018 Harvest Bible Chapel Tampa Bay Rev. Faith Driven Team September 6, 2021 Bio, Christian investor, Voice. Dallas Jenkins: There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Almighty God himself being murdered by a corrupt religious cabal in collusion with the Roman military. God bless your father-in-law. Agreed. Catholic Gate-Crasher: Lol. Does that make you manly? Sad. I agree that there is hierarchy in the churches from very early. i think we could analyze this for days, weeks, months. "A letter campaign, led by former staff member Dallas Jenkins ( not his first ), which centered on HBC's Elgin Campus and took the illegal recording to Mancow, whom he boasted of controlling . God bless. Consider the following Scriptures: For a bishop [EPISKOPOS] must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money. (Titus 1:7), Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops [EPISKOPOS] and deacons (Philippians 1:1). Dallas, choose the path of humility! able to teach Back Small Group Harvest Kids Harvest Students College Men Women Harvest Worship Disablities Prayer Care Outreach . dee: You sound like an attorney who just sent me a letter stating that I posted false statements by a victim. FOR WITHOUT THEM ONE CANNOT SPEAK OF THE CHURCH. elastigirl: you are a very comforting presence here, Max. Not only were the target audience all Christians (from the above buyouts), the would-be Soul-Winners went into shock after the intensity of the showing. America needs more Vietnamese restaurants than New Calvinist church plants. This place needs to be shut down. Their influence will spread exponentially once decentralized. Dallas Jenkins, . Muff Potter: Youre not alone elastigirl, theres no way I could watch it either. What is harvest in the Bible? So at least in theory there are checks and balances. When people look back on the history of the American evangelical movement in the first years of the third millennium, I sure hope they will shake their heads and ask why we put up with this nonsense for so long. Instead, all the surviving records appear to show the Church was liturgical and sacramental from the beginning, with established offices of bishops, priests, and deacons. Pastor James MacDonald, the founder Harvest Bible Chapel, a megachurch located in the surrounding Chicago area, has been fired as a leader of the church. You worked for Us. If you believe you have been financially defrauded, we want to hear from you. It will not be revealed to any of the flock members that they are paying for SM and then to transfer over $1M a yr to the head pastor. Precept Inductive Bible Study for Women. As God himself never forces anyone to believe in him, or acknowledge the Truth, we cannot expect to be able to persuade others to see what, to us, seems so obvious. Hes earned his money, I personally doubt that MacDonald was ever sincere, but it is likely that many of his deceived henchmen were. . Dee, you may want to poke around Alistair Beggs church. Then, I started laughing! it must be protected. Which really Goes against believing in an all powerful creator God almighty. If so, that would be a good thing if we could get back to letting the Main Thing be the main thing. We have heard and experienced horror in groups of all models. You need to stop looking at yourself as a victim and a good guy and admit that you are the neo-Pharisee that you really are. Whose job is the ministry? Why, dontcha know God inspired Paul to speak his thoughts, and me your trusted pastor to interpret them rightly? The apostles counted that an honor. The Bible(s) of the Christian church is a very big and complex book, much of it written by men who never met Jesus, nor met anyone who heard Jesus teach. elastigirl: perhaps the other side of this coin can be the joy and happiness of discovering the magnificence of fellow human beings outside the context of christian culture. Rolling Meadows, Elgin, Crystal Lake, Chicago Cathedral, Harvest en Espaol, Online. i understand the losses you describe, and experience them, too. Covidfrom the start of the pandemic and lockdowns, the Worship and Creative Teams busied themselves with recordings, writing coronavirus updates, and developing worship environments that would be both accessible and God-honoring in the height of the pandemic. It could very well be that Christianity is at the tipping point where believers realize that they are doing church without God where they have put their faith in religious systems of assorted belief and practice, rather than building a personal relationship with Christ. Beware! holding fast the faithful word So many things bring to mind what Leah Remini is bringing to light. It was not just Jmac who was enriching himself. I dont think any of these people have a clue about how that kind of trauma weaves its way into a persons life. humble. Law Prof: Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. We meet every Sunday in-person. My Comment was Deleted Some of that was probably bad stuff that was always phony, that Im glad is gonebut Im sure some of it was good stuff that, far as I know, died years ago. The official anniversary date was September 18, 2018. Were more or less on the same page, it sounds like. The whole cycle, from start to implosion and disbanding the church, was about five years. Never to leave me alone!. The Evangelical Bubble proclaimed it a Witnessing Tool (as if that was the only reason for anything) and then bought out so many showings a lot of the theaters had to discontinue group tickets. I know you really think more highly of me than you ought. Never, and I mean never, have I heard someone say, I would leave, but I just cant survive without the gifted teaching. If you had anything, Dallas, youd have shared it. Now lets see him use his powerful personality and influence to secure real transparency, healing and change for the thousands of people he claims to care about. In most of these cases, thats true because the red flags were there. And your husband whos probably going through a rough one. And its always dangerous when two fabrics team up. If only we would listen to what Lewis was saying, we might avoid these bullies going way back who latch onto Christianity because of all the naive fools who are suckers for the Gantry/MacDonald Schick. Milholland did this exact same thing at his former church, Hope Church in Memphis. elastigirl: but ultimately it means people are brainwashed into being acquiescent, passive, accommodating, maintaining their silence. My job in my personal life implosion and disbanding the church: Youre not elastigirl! Stopped in his harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins, we want to hear that he is masquerading! 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